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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 646

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for the 28th of february 2021 richard

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saunders coming to you this week from

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maynard's international studios maynard

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that's right we're sitting here watching

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a very skeptical movie called the

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swinger featuring ann

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margaret it's a great it's it's very

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skeptical it is and you made the comment

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may now that i

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bet that there are no other skeptics

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watching this movie at the moment

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that's right but susan gerbic hasn't got

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this on right now i bet you the

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entire cast of squaring the strange

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isn't watching ann margaret in the

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swinger

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i bet you're right now coming up on this

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week's show i

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interview dan lynch and dr julie kirsch

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about a new book they've written called

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crystal healing crystal healing and i've

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got a

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here it is crystal healing the science

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and psychology behind what works what

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doesn't and why

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all about rocks and crystals and why

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people think they can heal

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well i imagine it's a fairly short book

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then surprisingly not because they go

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into how crystals are formed

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why people believe in crystal healing

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and and individual crystals but

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a fascinating interview coming up at the

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top of the show

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you're into crystal healing aren't you i

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am indeed i've got a crystal where the

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sun don't shine uh my cupboard in the

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kitchen oh you're covered in the kitchen

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i've seen that crystal in the cupboard

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but i think it's great because skeptics

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should really get into that to find out

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why people believe what they believe i i

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agree completely

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after that it's time them with the book

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of tim another reading from the pages of

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the skeptic magazine

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this week tim is it's a bit of a

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surprise i'm not even sure what tim will

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be looking at this week we'll find out

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all together later on in the show

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i believe he's talking about all the

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movies of tony franzioska which is

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pretty interesting

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the co-star are in the swinger with ann

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margaret i believe he's concentrating on

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that this week which we're looking at in

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the corner of the room right now yes

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there was just

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a scene where she was covered with paint

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a little while ago which is quite um

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skeptical following that

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it's the australian skeptics newsletter

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see what's making news with the

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australian skeptics this week

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and then we wrap up maynard with another

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dive into trove and the psychic testing

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from the 1950s

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i thought we were going to do a fallacy

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this week i was going to do the fallacy

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of wearing your lamp on the head at a

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party

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that's a well-known logical fallacy that

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one but no no you have to go to

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uh our new website which is tinyurl.com

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to hear all of michelle bickersmart's

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logical fallacies because she's taking a

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rest from them she hasn't done the one

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about the flat

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the fallacy the flat tire on the way to

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the dentist

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uh that's that's usually not that that

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time you'd be surprised how often that

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that's quoted

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i would be buried this what the flat

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tire on the way to the dentist

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exactly how many times you've been late

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for something oh i had a flat tire

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and i had to go to the dentist it's

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always a fallacy

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there's a flat tire on the way also

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also if you go to skepticzone.tv scroll

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down on the right

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you'll see a link to the new typewriter

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time on youtube these are all the funny

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sketches and bits of

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starring your skeptical uh favorites

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from all around the world

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that i've put together over the last

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year including you may not you appear in

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a couple of episodes

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oh well yeah well yeah well you know

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some of my greatest moments here and

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we're actually been hanging out here

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because we've been doing a bit of a

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video streaming which is going to go to

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where 8 30 friday night

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australian time and you might be able to

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catch it on my facebook page or

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somewhere like that afterwards but

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richard you've been great even with the

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beard yeah the beard helps actually i've

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been behind the scenes behind the light

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uh doing the camera work and throwing

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things at you yes

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which i do anyway yeah he look he can

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well what you know what may not i think

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it's time we we both run to the kitchen

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and

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so while we're getting ourselves

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two stale crumpets what are you doing

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richard i'm going to listen

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i'm going to listen to the sceptic zone

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because that's all that's in there

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i'm on the i'm on the all stale crumpet

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diet put that in your skeptic pipe and

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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and joining me now all the way from

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beautiful madison wisconsin in the usa

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it's dan lynch and dr julie kirsch

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hi hi nice to meet you it's good to see

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you and through the magic of the

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interwebs we're actually looking at each

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other

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and i can almost peer into the

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background there and see what the

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weather is like in madison wisconsin

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now before we start i have an advanced

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copy here of your book crystal healing

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the science and psychology behind what

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works

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what doesn't and why and and when i

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initially got the press release from

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your uh publisher

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i read it and i thought what's this

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about why why are they sending a

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skeptical podcast

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a book about crystal healing but as i

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flipped through it and started to read

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the book

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it became quite clear to me that you

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take this whole realm of crystal healing

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from a very interesting and scientific

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and skeptical point of view

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but uh first of all dan what's your

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background when it comes to

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crystals and rocks and things like that

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well

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i grew up in a rock shop my parents

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are jewelers and we we've had a store in

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the family

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most my life buying and selling rocks

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and minerals

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and a lot of this stuff i learned first

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hand or at least got my start in it

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first hand

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identifying handling testing

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polishing various rocks and minerals

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supplemented with some classes at

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university and then things like that but

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largely

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we started you told me that you're a

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freshly

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minted doctor what's your background

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yeah so my interest is in health

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psychology so i just

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graduated from uw madison with a degree

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in health psychology

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where largely just understanding how

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different you know thought processes and

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emotions

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get under the skin and influence health

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and

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minerals

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really stemmed from meeting dan in high

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school and

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actually working in the rock shop and

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being around that

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growing up as well now dan all those uh

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years ago and all the time in the rock

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shop i guess

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i guess you had the occasion when people

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were coming in to seek out

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special crystals for healing of course

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yeah

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we had it all the time i would say wow

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almost one to one with with people

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coming in to look

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look for minerals for their collection

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because they found them interesting

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we had almost just as many people

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looking for something to help with their

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arthritis or

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help their creativity a lot of times

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they'd come in with a little list of

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minerals

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that they they made ahead of time

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because they had just read a crystal

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healing book and they wanted to find

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you know various minerals and stones

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that would help with

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with whatever was ailing them so i i

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saw a lot of that firsthand well that's

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fascinating

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and as um skeptic uh zone listeners know

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crystal healing

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is one of what we call the classics of

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skepticism

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and i've seen this sort of thing here in

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australia and i know of a woman who

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considers herself to be a mystic or a

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medium or a psychic or something like

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that

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who travels the country or she did

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before the pandemic

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with a a bed a bed

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made out of crystals or you lay down on

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a bed of crystals

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so you've put together this book and one

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of the things i like about the book are

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the chapters dedicated to

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the formation the scientific look at the

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formation of crystals

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now that must have been a fascinating

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thing to write about yeah

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yeah i've written a number of books

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about rocks and minerals but rarely do i

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get to

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dive into talking about how they

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actually

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formed um simplifying it down to

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something that that everyone can

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understand part of the reason why

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crystal healing has become

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so prevalent is because

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mineralogy and crystallography is is

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inherently

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complex and difficult to understand

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crystal healing books

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and books of metaphysical books of those

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of that kind

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really make it simple and approachable

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so i thought i had to take that same

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approach to the actual science behind

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rocks and minerals and

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and actually boil it down to to what

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crystals truly are i we felt a

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responsibility we

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we felt we couldn't tell people these

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are not magical objects without

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breaking it all the way down to the

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actual literal atomic level

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and showing them that they're not

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magical objects

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indeed and the book does go into this

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down to the atomic level

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and where crystals are formed in the

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earth's crust which i found fascinating

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and the fact that some crystals are

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quite young

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and that surprised me a little bit

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because i've got this idea in my head

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that crystals

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should be ancient things but no they

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vary in age quite a lot now julie you

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must have found this a fascinating book

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to write as well

284
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why do you think it is that so many

285
00:10:13,190 --> 00:10:10,880
people are attracted to the idea of um

286
00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:13,200
crystal healing do you think people

287
00:10:17,110 --> 00:10:15,360
think crystals are magical or have some

288
00:10:17,590 --> 00:10:17,120
sort of special power or something like

289
00:10:20,069 --> 00:10:17,600
that

290
00:10:20,870 --> 00:10:20,079
yeah i think they do have a really

291
00:10:22,790 --> 00:10:20,880
appealing

292
00:10:24,470 --> 00:10:22,800
aspect and that you know and also

293
00:10:27,269 --> 00:10:24,480
there's this whole community

294
00:10:28,389 --> 00:10:27,279
around crystal healing as well um and

295
00:10:31,350 --> 00:10:28,399
that can also

296
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:31,360
bring people in and just and especially

297
00:10:34,470 --> 00:10:32,399
thinking of

298
00:10:37,030 --> 00:10:34,480
online and social media there's just a

299
00:10:39,750 --> 00:10:37,040
multitude of sources and websites

300
00:10:40,949 --> 00:10:39,760
on crystal healing and you know looking

301
00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:40,959
at the various

302
00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:43,680
you know types of crystals and uses and

303
00:10:47,990 --> 00:10:46,160
it and it does seem like very

304
00:10:49,430 --> 00:10:48,000
you know evidence-based as well because

305
00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:49,440
they'll often provide different

306
00:10:53,590 --> 00:10:51,680
testimonies and things like that that i

307
00:10:56,710 --> 00:10:53,600
think are just very appealing to people

308
00:10:58,150 --> 00:10:56,720
and can draw people in absolutely and

309
00:10:59,750 --> 00:10:58,160
and i guess what we've discovered here

310
00:11:01,590 --> 00:10:59,760
in the skeptical world is when

311
00:11:03,509 --> 00:11:01,600
people believe in something like that

312
00:11:05,590 --> 00:11:03,519
they agree with each other

313
00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:05,600
and they sort of feed off each other

314
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:07,360
they're uh they're reinforced by each

315
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:07,760
other

316
00:11:11,430 --> 00:11:09,440
now somebody comes along and says well i

317
00:11:12,389 --> 00:11:11,440
had this particular problem and i tried

318
00:11:15,509 --> 00:11:12,399
this

319
00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:15,519
certain crystal and it worked for me

320
00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:18,160
that can sway a lot of people and what i

321
00:11:22,949 --> 00:11:19,839
like about your book too is

322
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:22,959
you look into the psychology and

323
00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:24,800
well you mentioned carl sagan's dragon

324
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:26,640
which is a good thing

325
00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:28,240
now dan one of the things that i've

326
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:29,839
heard over many years about

327
00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:32,560
crystals is people say well they're used

328
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:33,760
in watches

329
00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:35,680
so they must have an energy or or

330
00:11:37,829 --> 00:11:37,360
something like that how do you look at

331
00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:37,839
that

332
00:11:44,470 --> 00:11:42,240
up quite a bit actually

333
00:11:45,750 --> 00:11:44,480
um i i think there's just a fundamental

334
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:45,760
misunderstanding of

335
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:48,959
of the properties of crystals um they

336
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:49,760
are

337
00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:51,680
they consist of a repeating atomic

338
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:53,120
structure of of

339
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:56,240
atoms bonded together and that

340
00:12:01,829 --> 00:11:59,279
that structure can cause

341
00:12:02,550 --> 00:12:01,839
you know electricity or various other

342
00:12:05,590 --> 00:12:02,560
forces

343
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:05,600
to move through it at regular intervals

344
00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:08,240
so when a watch a quartz crystal and a

345
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:10,720
watch is keeping perfect time

346
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:13,760
that's entirely a result of electric

347
00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:15,600
current not because of any

348
00:12:19,509 --> 00:12:18,560
uh mystical vibrations within it it's

349
00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:19,519
kind of

350
00:12:24,230 --> 00:12:23,040
a a key facet of of crystal healing

351
00:12:26,870 --> 00:12:24,240
beliefs is

352
00:12:27,590 --> 00:12:26,880
is taking something that we understand

353
00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:27,600
quite well

354
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:31,519
and applying uh uh more mystical uh

355
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:35,200
meaning to it i'm glad you brought that

356
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:36,800
up because that was one thing that

357
00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:37,680
surprised me

358
00:12:40,949 --> 00:12:39,519
reading doing research for crystal

359
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:40,959
healing books is

360
00:12:46,790 --> 00:12:44,240
how they try to you know take

361
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:46,800
some you know loosely scientific terms

362
00:12:50,550 --> 00:12:48,880
or loosely translate scientific terms to

363
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:50,560
make it seem more legitimate

364
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:53,680
and an evidence-based um yeah the watch

365
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:56,720
example of being one and also

366
00:13:01,990 --> 00:13:00,240
referring to quantum physics and yeah

367
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:02,000
yeah i i i was just looking at the

368
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:04,000
website your website and saw that you

369
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:06,160
just did a bit

370
00:13:12,980 --> 00:13:09,760
on um gibberish which is it's it's

371
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:12,990
rife in this it's very well linked

372
00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:14,720
[Laughter]

373
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:17,200
well we also call that word salad yes

374
00:13:22,949 --> 00:13:19,120
yeah yeah yeah we we

375
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:22,959
yes now and the question for both of you

376
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:24,720
is there anything that um

377
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:27,279
particularly surprised you and you

378
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:28,720
didn't know about when you were doing

379
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:29,920
research for this book

380
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:34,000
um well to be frank there's a lot about

381
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:36,320
uh crystal healing beliefs that should

382
00:13:40,470 --> 00:13:37,920
be surprising but uh

383
00:13:41,829 --> 00:13:40,480
wasn't they make all kinds of all kinds

384
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:41,839
of wild claims

385
00:13:45,110 --> 00:13:44,079
um with all kinds of anecdotal evidence

386
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,120
to support it

387
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:47,519
i will say one thing that surprised me

388
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:49,040
when i was

389
00:13:55,509 --> 00:13:52,399
uh when we were researching the book and

390
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:55,519
the actual mining processes of

391
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:57,760
certain minerals that are particularly

392
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:00,000
revered by crystal healers

393
00:14:03,750 --> 00:14:03,040
for example rose quartz um there's a lot

394
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:03,760
of places

395
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:06,480
uh where these are these minerals are

396
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,360
obtained

397
00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:09,279
um illegally or dangerously and in the

398
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:10,800
case of reports

399
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:14,000
um sometimes with with child labor in

400
00:14:19,430 --> 00:14:17,279
uh namely in madagascar and

401
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:19,440
those facts are really at odds with the

402
00:14:22,629 --> 00:14:20,480
crystal

403
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:22,639
healing you know ideals of being

404
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:24,800
holistic being natural being more

405
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:26,560
organic

406
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:30,079
and a lot of the shadier sides of

407
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:31,120
crystal mining

408
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:34,399
um that really fly on the face of of

409
00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:37,360
those ideas well you make an excellent

410
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:38,720
point there because a lot of the people

411
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:40,800
who are involved in that realm of

412
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:43,440
so-called crystal healing and thinking

413
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:44,000
they're getting

414
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:45,839
benefit and they have that outlook of

415
00:14:50,790 --> 00:14:48,399
being one with nature and

416
00:14:52,949 --> 00:14:50,800
trying to be uh at peace with the

417
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:52,959
universe and having an ethical outlook

418
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:53,199
and

419
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:57,120
when i discovered

420
00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:59,360
that a lot of these crystals are sourced

421
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:01,360
in a most unethical way

422
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:04,560
and certainly not all of them but but

423
00:15:07,750 --> 00:15:05,040
enough

424
00:15:08,949 --> 00:15:07,760
that it is a it is a concern whenever

425
00:15:10,949 --> 00:15:08,959
whenever you're buying

426
00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:10,959
yeah any anything that's been mined you

427
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:12,560
kind of have to ask that question to

428
00:15:16,629 --> 00:15:14,240
yourself where did this come from who

429
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:16,639
who did the work and what did they get

430
00:15:19,750 --> 00:15:17,839
yeah

431
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,760
yes it's one of the many fascinating

432
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:21,600
things i discovered in this book

433
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:24,079
now a question for both of you is who is

434
00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:26,000
this book really aimed at

435
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:27,760
now i'm a skeptic i've been around for a

436
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:29,519
while doing this sort of stuff and i

437
00:15:34,069 --> 00:15:30,880
found it uh

438
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:34,079
of great interest it was an education

439
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:36,160
but when you were writing it

440
00:15:39,509 --> 00:15:38,320
who who was it really aimed at in your

441
00:15:42,069 --> 00:15:39,519
opinion

442
00:15:42,949 --> 00:15:42,079
well i think i don't think we're going

443
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:42,959
to

444
00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:45,199
change the minds of anyone who is is

445
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:46,399
deeply entrenched in

446
00:15:49,749 --> 00:15:48,639
in metaphysical or pseudoscientific

447
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:49,759
beliefs

448
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:53,040
but if we can get the point across

449
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:56,480
to to someone who's curious who's

450
00:15:59,509 --> 00:15:58,160
maybe interested in rocks and minerals

451
00:16:01,110 --> 00:15:59,519
thinks crystals are really neat but

452
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:01,120
doesn't know a lot about them

453
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:02,480
maybe they're talking to people on

454
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:04,160
facebook about the properties of

455
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:05,519
crystals and maybe they're getting some

456
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:07,360
bad information

457
00:16:10,550 --> 00:16:10,079
they might be leaning towards crystal

458
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:10,560
healing

459
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:12,720
beliefs this this book is really for

460
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:14,320
them i i think we

461
00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:17,680
we did a good job walking people through

462
00:16:23,749 --> 00:16:20,800
what crystals really are and how

463
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:23,759
um the crystal healing industry can lead

464
00:16:28,310 --> 00:16:25,839
you astray

465
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:28,320
yeah and i think it's also for people

466
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:30,480
like yourself who may know of somebody a

467
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:32,240
family member or friend who's going

468
00:16:36,470 --> 00:16:34,800
down the path of getting more entrenched

469
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:36,480
in the practices and so we're hoping

470
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:37,920
this can help

471
00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:39,759
armed individuals to come up with

472
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:41,120
different talking points

473
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:43,600
um and do it in a really empathic and

474
00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:44,959
understanding way

475
00:16:50,230 --> 00:16:48,000
um to help convince them that

476
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:50,240
this really isn't an evidence-based and

477
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:52,800
well-supported practice and could have

478
00:16:57,910 --> 00:16:55,519
more negative consequences down the line

479
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:57,920
now folks the book is called crystal

480
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,639
healing

481
00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:01,040
the science and psychology behind what

482
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:01,920
works

483
00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:05,520
what doesn't and why by adventure

484
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:06,240
publishing

485
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:09,439
by dan lynch and dr julie kirsch and i'd

486
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:11,280
like to thank you very much for spending

487
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:13,520
some time here on the skeptic zone

488
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:15,280
and i'll put a link in this week's show

489
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,959
notes so you can

490
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:19,280
have a look at where to get that book

491
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:20,720
for yourself

492
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:23,439
and i think it's going to be available

493
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:24,480
in

494
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:28,000
major covert

495
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:31,600
delays well who can look into the future

496
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:33,039
we need a crystal for that

497
00:17:36,789 --> 00:17:35,360
well for now dan lynch and dr julie

498
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:36,799
kirsch all the way over there in

499
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:37,679
beautiful

500
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:40,400
madison wisconsin thank you very much

501
00:17:47,910 --> 00:17:41,120
thank you for having

502
00:18:54,830 --> 00:18:34,950
[Music]

503
00:19:05,510 --> 00:18:56,380
uh

504
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:11,750
and now a reading from the book of time

505
00:19:18,230 --> 00:19:14,570
with tim mendom

506
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:20,470
hi my name is tim menden and i'm the

507
00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:22,799
executive officer of australian skeptics

508
00:19:26,070 --> 00:19:25,120
and editor of our quarterly magazine the

509
00:19:28,430 --> 00:19:26,080
skeptic

510
00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:28,440
which you can download off our website

511
00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:30,480
skeptics.com

512
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:31,919
today i'm going to be looking at the

513
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,760
column called what goes around

514
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:35,280
which is basically an idea that you

515
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:36,960
start with one fact and you can make all

516
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:38,400
sorts of links and end up where you

517
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:40,160
started from

518
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:42,480
and this one is looking at seeing things

519
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:44,480
insights and outsides

520
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:46,720
and it comes from the skeptic magazine

521
00:19:52,070 --> 00:19:48,720
june 2016

522
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:52,080
which is volume 36 number two and you

523
00:19:55,070 --> 00:19:53,360
can look that up as i said on our

524
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:55,080
website

525
00:20:02,470 --> 00:20:00,070
we start off with the concept of

526
00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:02,480
pareidolia which is the word that's used

527
00:20:05,270 --> 00:20:03,120
a lot

528
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:05,280
in skeptical circles which is a

529
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:06,720
psychological phenomenon

530
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,640
involving a stimulus which could be an

531
00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:10,159
image or a sound

532
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:12,320
wherein the mind perceives a familiar

533
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:13,919
pattern of something where

534
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:16,559
no pattern actually exists common

535
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:18,720
examples are perceived images of animals

536
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:19,520
faces

537
00:20:23,029 --> 00:20:21,760
or objects in cloud formations the man

538
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:23,039
in the moon

539
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:24,640
or the moon rabbit as it is in some

540
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:27,200
cultures hidden messages within recorded

541
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:28,799
music played in reverse

542
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:31,280
or at higher or lower than normal speeds

543
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:33,200
and jesus on a slice of toast

544
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,520
the word is derived from the greek words

545
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:37,679
para which means beside or alongside or

546
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:38,960
instead of

547
00:20:42,870 --> 00:20:40,799
in the context meaning something faulty

548
00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:42,880
or wrong and the noun

549
00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:46,720
adolem meaning image form or shape

550
00:20:51,909 --> 00:20:49,760
so it's a instead of shape

551
00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:51,919
paradolia is different to hallucinations

552
00:20:56,149 --> 00:20:54,240
the former is seeing something real

553
00:20:57,750 --> 00:20:56,159
but interpreting incorrectly

554
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:57,760
hallucinations on the other hand

555
00:21:01,669 --> 00:21:00,159
a phenomena of seeing hearing touching

556
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:01,679
tasting or smelling things that are not

557
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:02,640
there

558
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:04,640
sleep deprivation can result in a

559
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:07,039
predictable series of hallucinations

560
00:21:10,630 --> 00:21:08,559
and the first of these is the sense of

561
00:21:11,830 --> 00:21:10,640
something moving in your peripheral

562
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:11,840
vision

563
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:13,919
some have dubbed these brown furries

564
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:15,440
because they often appear

565
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:18,400
as indistinct black brown objects and

566
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,240
the peripheral vision is primarily

567
00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:23,200
gray scale visual hallucinations common

568
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:24,159
in people with

569
00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:27,600
dementia with lewy bodies and the less

570
00:21:30,070 --> 00:21:29,440
common audio hallucinations may be

571
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:30,080
associated

572
00:21:35,430 --> 00:21:32,799
with psychic phenomena now frank podmore

573
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:35,440
who lived from 1856 to 1910

574
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:37,760
was an english author a founding member

575
00:21:40,470 --> 00:21:39,600
of the fabian society a psychical

576
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:40,480
researcher

577
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:42,880
and member of the society for psychical

578
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,480
research

579
00:21:47,830 --> 00:21:46,320
unlike most works published by members

580
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:47,840
of the spr

581
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,679
podmore's output received good reviews

582
00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:51,440
from the scientific community

583
00:21:54,630 --> 00:21:53,600
particularly as he gave rationalistic

584
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:54,640
explanations

585
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:56,559
for much of the psychical research that

586
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:58,000
he studied

587
00:22:01,029 --> 00:21:59,520
while he considered mediums to be

588
00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:01,039
fraudulent

589
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:03,200
he was open-minded about the telepathic

590
00:22:07,590 --> 00:22:04,960
hypothesis for leonora

591
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:07,600
piper's sciences however he said that

592
00:22:12,630 --> 00:22:09,520
the evidence for the crs

593
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:12,640
of pravast was inconclusive

594
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:15,200
and sometimes indicative of collusion

595
00:22:21,630 --> 00:22:18,400
with members of the series's family

596
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:21,640
friedrich half who lived from 1801 to

597
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:24,080
1829 so therefore she wasn't very old

598
00:22:27,909 --> 00:22:25,200
when she died

599
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:27,919
was also known as fredericka half or the

600
00:22:32,470 --> 00:22:30,080
sea rest of pravost

601
00:22:34,070 --> 00:22:32,480
she was a german clairvoyant medium and

602
00:22:35,830 --> 00:22:34,080
somnambulist

603
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:35,840
sleepwalking she suffered from

604
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:37,200
convulsions and would fall into

605
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:38,720
spontaneous trances

606
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:40,240
she claimed to have communicated with

607
00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:42,159
spirits and experienced visions

608
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:44,080
she was made famous by the physician and

609
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:46,720
poet justinis kerner

610
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:49,360
who described her trances in his book

611
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:51,200
the saber and von prevost

612
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:53,280
which you can imagine is revelations of

613
00:22:57,510 --> 00:22:55,600
the human inner life and about the

614
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:57,520
penetrations of the

615
00:23:00,950 --> 00:22:59,280
spirit world into ours which is the

616
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:00,960
world's longest subtitle

617
00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:03,600
and recorded alleged instances of her

618
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:06,559
clairvoyance and prophetic dreams

619
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:10,799
he also pioneered klexography

620
00:23:14,950 --> 00:23:13,679
and included klexographs in his books of

621
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:14,960
poetry

622
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:18,320
claxography is the art of making images

623
00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:21,120
from inkblots kerner invented the

624
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:22,640
technique when he started

625
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:24,559
accidentally dropping blots of ink onto

626
00:23:29,110 --> 00:23:27,280
paper due to his failing eyesight

627
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:29,120
instead of throwing them away he found

628
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:31,840
that intriguing shapes appeared if he

629
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:34,720
unfolded the papers kerner began a

630
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:37,200
collection of klexographs and poetry

631
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:40,240
in 1857 titled

632
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:43,520
clexa graphene his collection was not

633
00:23:47,510 --> 00:23:45,440
published until 1890 because of his

634
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:47,520
death in 1862.

635
00:23:51,269 --> 00:23:50,240
since the 1890s psychologists have used

636
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:51,279
clexography

637
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:54,320
as a tool for studying the subconscious

638
00:23:57,909 --> 00:23:56,720
most famously by swiss freudian

639
00:24:01,549 --> 00:23:57,919
psychiatrist

640
00:24:03,269 --> 00:24:01,559
hermann roshak who lived from 1884 to

641
00:24:05,669 --> 00:24:03,279
1922

642
00:24:06,390 --> 00:24:05,679
as a child rorschach was known to his

643
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:06,400
friends

644
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:09,120
as cliques because of his interest in

645
00:24:13,350 --> 00:24:10,080
klexographic

646
00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:13,360
inkblots he developed 10 tests

647
00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:15,600
printed on cards that are used to assess

648
00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:17,760
subjects perceptions of inkblots

649
00:24:21,750 --> 00:24:19,360
analyze using psychological

650
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:21,760
interpretation complex algorithms or

651
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:22,480
both

652
00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:24,640
some psychologists use this test to

653
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:26,799
examine a person's personality

654
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:29,760
characteristics and emotional function

655
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:31,520
it has been employed to detect

656
00:24:35,269 --> 00:24:33,919
underlying thought disorders especially

657
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:35,279
in cases where patients

658
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:37,760
are reluctant to describe their thinking

659
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:38,480
processes

660
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:42,320
openly the raw shock is a projective

661
00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:43,039
test

662
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:46,159
as it intentionally elicits the thoughts

663
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:47,679
or feelings of respondents

664
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:50,640
which are projected onto the ambiguous

665
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:52,240
inkblot images

666
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:54,720
and projection in this instance is a

667
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:55,440
form of

668
00:25:00,070 --> 00:24:58,400
directed paradolia which brings us back

669
00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:00,080
to where we started from

670
00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:06,950
[Music]

671
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:08,400
and that was in the what goes around

672
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:10,240
column in the skeptic magazine

673
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:13,279
june 2016 which is volume

674
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:16,000
36 number two you can download the

675
00:25:19,269 --> 00:25:16,880
entire

676
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:19,279
copy of that issue of the magazine as

677
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:20,320
with many others

678
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,310
and while you're there maybe you should

679
00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:30,960
think of subscribing to the magazine

680
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,799
it's a plethora of fascinating

681
00:25:43,870 --> 00:25:34,720
information i should know

682
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:48,149
[Music]

683
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:50,480
the skeptic the journal from australian

684
00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:51,600
skeptics

685
00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:53,600
subscribe online the world's second

686
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:56,000
oldest skeptical magazine

687
00:26:02,789 --> 00:25:59,919
just visit www.skeptics.com

688
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:02,799
and click the magazine link there you

689
00:26:07,110 --> 00:26:03,760
will also find

690
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:07,120
free to download almost 40 years of back

691
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:07,919
issues

692
00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:10,240
the skeptic the journal from australian

693
00:26:13,350 --> 00:26:10,960
skeptics

694
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:13,360
available as a physical copy or as a

695
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:14,400
digital copy

696
00:26:25,970 --> 00:26:37,430
[Music]

697
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:38,950
now let's take a look at the australian

698
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:41,200
skeptics newsletter newsletter number

699
00:26:48,549 --> 00:26:43,840
116 written and compiled by tim

700
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:48,559
mendem hi all the death toll from covert

701
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:51,520
continues to increase the us passes half

702
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:52,080
a million

703
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:55,120
and belgium inches closer to one in

704
00:26:59,750 --> 00:26:56,880
every 500.

705
00:27:01,830 --> 00:26:59,760
nations speak of third and fourth waves

706
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:01,840
in australia and new zealand we suffer

707
00:27:05,909 --> 00:27:03,440
the occasional outbreaks

708
00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:05,919
and react with concern and sometimes

709
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:07,120
restrictions

710
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:09,120
even though the numbers are incredibly

711
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,279
low compared to elsewhere

712
00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:13,440
it makes you realize what a fragile

713
00:27:20,070 --> 00:27:16,480
thing is but protection from pandemics

714
00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:20,080
so as the vaccines roll out it is even

715
00:27:24,230 --> 00:27:22,640
more concerning that the anti-vaxx

716
00:27:25,549 --> 00:27:24,240
movement continues to spread

717
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:25,559
misinformation

718
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:28,799
misrepresentation and simply

719
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:31,919
lies whether by traveling bus

720
00:27:35,669 --> 00:27:34,960
or millions march protests and by

721
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:35,679
millions

722
00:27:43,669 --> 00:27:41,669
and the first item says here australians

723
00:27:46,710 --> 00:27:43,679
on getting the covert jab

724
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:46,720
a recent study by anu found a

725
00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:49,520
significant and substantial increase in

726
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:50,320
vaccine

727
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:52,960
hesitancy since the same people were

728
00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:55,279
asked about getting the job last year

729
00:28:00,230 --> 00:27:57,279
with those becoming less willing to get

730
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:00,240
a vaccine increasing by 31.9 percent

731
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:03,919
between august 2020 and january 2021

732
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:06,960
and 9.9 percent more willing

733
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:08,640
according to the study females

734
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:10,640
indigenous australians

735
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:12,480
and those who speak a language other

736
00:28:17,269 --> 00:28:13,840
than english at home

737
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:17,279
and those who have not completed year 12

738
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:20,159
that's a year 12 in high school have

739
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:20,880
become

740
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:23,679
less willing to get vaccine compared

741
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:24,080
with

742
00:28:29,750 --> 00:28:27,120
the rest of the australian population

743
00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:29,760
and don't forget each of these segments

744
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:31,600
is accompanied by a link you can click

745
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:34,799
on to take you to the full story

746
00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:37,200
global summit on the efficacy of spinal

747
00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:38,960
manipulation therapy

748
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:41,520
a recent report from a global summit of

749
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:43,039
international scientists

750
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:45,520
has found that there is quote no

751
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:46,240
evidence

752
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:50,320
for an effect of smt

753
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:52,880
spinal manipulative therapy for the

754
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:55,200
management of non-musculoskeletal

755
00:29:02,230 --> 00:28:59,039
disorders including infantile colic

756
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:02,240
childhood asthma hypertension

757
00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:04,960
primary dysmenorrhea and migraine end

758
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:06,080
quote

759
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:08,320
a proportion of chiropractors osteopaths

760
00:29:12,310 --> 00:29:09,200
and other

761
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:12,320
manual medical providers use

762
00:29:17,710 --> 00:29:15,600
smt for the primary secondary and

763
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:17,720
tertiary prevention of

764
00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:20,240
non-musculoskeletal disorders

765
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:22,640
the summit's findings challenges the

766
00:29:26,669 --> 00:29:24,320
validity of the theory

767
00:29:28,389 --> 00:29:26,679
that treating spinal dysfunctions with

768
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:28,399
smt

769
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:31,200
has a physiological effect on organs and

770
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:32,559
their function

771
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:35,200
how australia became fertile ground for

772
00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:37,679
misinformation and q anon

773
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:40,080
australians have proven highly capable

774
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:42,080
of adapting international conspiracy

775
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:43,679
theories like q anon

776
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:46,559
to the local context and the problem is

777
00:29:50,950 --> 00:29:48,240
not going away

778
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:50,960
one report found that australia was the

779
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:53,039
fourth largest country for q and on

780
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:54,960
activity behind the us

781
00:30:01,510 --> 00:29:58,399
the uk and canada though the u.s

782
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:01,520
leads the field by a country mile

783
00:30:06,789 --> 00:30:04,480
this is quite a detailed article on the

784
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:06,799
status of conspiracy theories

785
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:09,200
and theorists and q and on followers in

786
00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:10,559
australia

787
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:12,320
and some of the other items here in the

788
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:13,760
newsletter

789
00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:17,200
influence of the moon on agriculture

790
00:30:21,990 --> 00:30:19,200
a research team from the university of

791
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,000
valencia warns of the pseudoscience that

792
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:24,320
is the influence of the moon on

793
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,760
agriculture

794
00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:27,760
the next issue of the skeptic the

795
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:29,120
journal from australian skeptics of

796
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:29,760
course

797
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:32,399
features an in-depth look at the role of

798
00:30:37,590 --> 00:30:34,399
biodynamic theory

799
00:30:39,269 --> 00:30:37,600
in the wine industry hmm do you need any

800
00:30:40,789 --> 00:30:39,279
uh taste testers there tim

801
00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:40,799
pete evans running for federal

802
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:42,559
parliament paleo pete

803
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:45,520
will run as the first senate candidate

804
00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:48,080
for the great australian party

805
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,720
a fringe party set up by former one

806
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:52,480
nation politician

807
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:55,200
rod cullet quote pete evans has

808
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:56,880
maintained his principles

809
00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:58,799
and inspired others in the face of

810
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:01,360
uncommon adversity and quote

811
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:04,480
carlton said and it's written right here

812
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:10,549
skepticon 2019 videos a selection

813
00:31:13,990 --> 00:31:12,559
of presentations from the australian

814
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:14,000
skeptics national convention in

815
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:15,760
melbourne in 2019

816
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:18,480
are now available for viewing and the

817
00:31:23,590 --> 00:31:20,320
ones currently available are mark

818
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:23,600
edward doing a seance dr suyurachi about

819
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:26,880
anti-science bingo lee murray on

820
00:31:33,269 --> 00:31:30,320
linguistics susan gerbic on cold reading

821
00:31:36,070 --> 00:31:33,279
and tina harrigan on charles darwin the

822
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:36,080
newsletter also lists upcoming events

823
00:31:40,870 --> 00:31:37,840
including those in canberra

824
00:31:43,350 --> 00:31:40,880
sydney queensland victoria the gold

825
00:31:45,269 --> 00:31:43,360
coast perth and adelaide

826
00:31:47,269 --> 00:31:45,279
and you can read all of that and much

827
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:47,279
more by subscribing to the australian

828
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:48,720
skeptics newsletter

829
00:32:06,070 --> 00:31:50,480
which will appear in your inbox every

830
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:09,590
drinking hey drinks hey so nice to be

831
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:11,200
back at skeptics in the pub

832
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:13,360
yes richard it's great that covert 19 is

833
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:14,480
a thing of the past

834
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:16,399
and we can gather together and not wear

835
00:32:18,630 --> 00:32:18,080
masks although i will occasionally you

836
00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:18,640
know like

837
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:20,559
you know in special situations you know

838
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:22,000
what i mean

839
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:24,000
this this beer tastes better than i

840
00:32:28,230 --> 00:32:25,120
remember

841
00:32:29,029 --> 00:32:28,240
and this beer glass is much bigger than

842
00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:29,039
i remember

843
00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:31,760
hmm oh thanks for this i'll get the next

844
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:32,320
round

845
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:34,960
ah no need all the beer is free tonight

846
00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:36,480
free

847
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:38,240
wow did you hear that all the

848
00:32:41,029 --> 00:32:39,840
anti-vaxxers and flat earthers have

849
00:32:44,710 --> 00:32:41,039
changed their minds

850
00:32:46,310 --> 00:32:44,720
what really yeah yeah they're now busy

851
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:46,320
writing apology letters to the whole

852
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:46,799
world

853
00:32:49,509 --> 00:32:48,159
they're really busy they're gonna have

854
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:49,519
to sharpen their pencil if you know what

855
00:32:53,110 --> 00:32:50,000
i mean

856
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:53,120
ah look it's lara coming over here with

857
00:33:14,630 --> 00:32:53,360
a

858
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:14,640
uber rides home

859
00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:17,279
wow hang on this seems too good to be

860
00:33:20,230 --> 00:33:18,559
true who's the guest speaker it's not

861
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:20,240
bloody brian dunning is it

862
00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:23,440
let me see uh this

863
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:26,720
is odd it says here it's the skeptical

864
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:29,360
fairy godmother angel from the internet

865
00:33:43,909 --> 00:33:33,200
the skeptical godmoth fairy in

866
00:33:47,909 --> 00:33:46,470
hello everyone who are you like you're

867
00:33:50,149 --> 00:33:47,919
only 10 centimeters tall

868
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:50,159
that's about four inches for those of

869
00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:51,360
you using the

870
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:54,000
darth vader imperial system and floating

871
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:55,760
in the air that can't be right

872
00:34:02,149 --> 00:33:58,799
as lara said i'm the skeptical

873
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:02,159
fairy godmother angel from the internet

874
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:04,240
ask a silly question and you're

875
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:06,640
tonight's guest speaker well

876
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:10,079
not really i have come to tell you that

877
00:34:20,230 --> 00:34:17,430
i thought this was too good to be true i

878
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:20,240
know we can't meet in pubs at the moment

879
00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:22,159
but that shouldn't stop you from

880
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:25,359
enjoying skeptical talks online

881
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:28,399
the fixed skeptics have skeptics cafe

882
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:31,520
each month sydney has skeptics in the

883
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:32,639
pub

884
00:34:35,669 --> 00:34:35,119
there are online events from the gold

885
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:35,679
coast

886
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:38,720
and yes yes this all sounds

887
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:42,240
eerily familiar have we met before

888
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:43,280
somewhere

889
00:34:48,069 --> 00:34:47,359
maybe we have maybe it was as we watched

890
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:48,079
a live

891
00:34:51,909 --> 00:34:51,280
and interactive skeptical talk all you

892
00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:51,919
need do

893
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:54,960
is search for them online no matter

894
00:34:58,069 --> 00:34:56,399
where you are in the world

895
00:34:59,990 --> 00:34:58,079
she's right i've been watching skeptical

896
00:35:01,589 --> 00:35:00,000
talks from the uk the us

897
00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:01,599
and even one from my own living room

898
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:03,119
although that one wasn't very

899
00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:04,720
interesting i fell asleep and i was the

900
00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:05,200
speaker

901
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:08,240
hang on hang on weren't you once

902
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:11,680
the tooth fairy i'll

903
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:15,040
never live that down one last

904
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:20,880
question yes just whose dream is this

905
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:31,510
sparklers she disappeared but um we're

906
00:35:35,349 --> 00:35:32,320
still here

907
00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:35,359
huh right so

908
00:35:41,349 --> 00:35:39,440
um lobster and chips anyone

909
00:35:48,410 --> 00:35:41,359
all right now it's a dream you want to

910
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:56,050
[Music]

911
00:36:02,069 --> 00:36:00,000
now it's time once again to look into

912
00:36:04,550 --> 00:36:02,079
the unknown into the unknown the

913
00:36:07,349 --> 00:36:04,560
continuing series of reports

914
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:07,359
from 1950 of psychic and other

915
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:09,440
paranormal tests

916
00:36:15,109 --> 00:36:12,880
uh conducted in late 1949

917
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:15,119
reported in 1950 this comes to us from

918
00:36:19,829 --> 00:36:16,880
the color magazine

919
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:19,839
sunday sun supplement and this

920
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:20,880
particular

921
00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:24,000
part we're up to was published on the

922
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:32,069
[Music]

923
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:34,400
now over the many weeks we've been

924
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:37,119
reading the adventures of a panel

925
00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:40,720
investigating spiritualism clairvoyance

926
00:36:45,750 --> 00:36:42,480
clear audience

927
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:45,760
what we would now call channeling where

928
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:46,560
people

929
00:36:50,470 --> 00:36:49,520
claim to be taken over by the spirit of

930
00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:50,480
so and so

931
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:53,920
this that or the other including some

932
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:54,960
native

933
00:37:01,430 --> 00:36:58,400
uh american people

934
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:01,440
running water and white feather and a

935
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:02,720
german doctor

936
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:05,839
dr robert and of course we widely

937
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:07,040
suspect that these

938
00:37:13,510 --> 00:37:09,520
original disembodied spirits actually

939
00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:15,109
last week we had the summing up the

940
00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:16,560
beginning of the summing up from the

941
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:16,960
panel

942
00:37:23,090 --> 00:37:20,720
we heard from lord amwell

943
00:37:24,550 --> 00:37:23,100
and sir john anderson

944
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,560
[Music]

945
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,320
this week we continue with the summing

946
00:37:32,050 --> 00:37:28,560
up from dr bendent

947
00:37:35,430 --> 00:37:32,060
and mrs haldane

948
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:38,630
doctor pendant spiritualism is not a

949
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:41,440
thing which stands up to investigation

950
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:44,880
to believe in it one has first to refuse

951
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:47,440
to allow oneself to be critical

952
00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:50,720
when one is in the movement this may

953
00:37:55,190 --> 00:37:52,160
seem at first sight

954
00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:55,200
harmless enough but if one looks a

955
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:56,560
little more deeply

956
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:59,520
one has to see that it is not so

957
00:38:03,190 --> 00:38:00,480
innocent a thing

958
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:03,200
as one thinks the encouragement of

959
00:38:07,270 --> 00:38:04,160
credulity

960
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:07,280
does nobody any good it is

961
00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:10,480
as bad or worse than encouraging

962
00:38:16,829 --> 00:38:14,079
cynicism and total unbelief

963
00:38:18,950 --> 00:38:16,839
worse in that when one is totally

964
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:18,960
unbelieving one is pulling

965
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:21,680
all the time against a natural and

966
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:24,000
healthy urge to find some kind of

967
00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:26,800
constructive philosophy of life which

968
00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:27,760
sooner or later

969
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:31,040
may carry the unbeliever into a

970
00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:34,240
healthier frame of mind if one is

971
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:35,200
credulous

972
00:38:40,390 --> 00:38:37,920
nothing short of some severe and

973
00:38:43,109 --> 00:38:40,400
probably highly painful shock

974
00:38:44,550 --> 00:38:43,119
will get one out of the sloth of

975
00:38:47,829 --> 00:38:44,560
emotionalism

976
00:38:49,190 --> 00:38:47,839
and then perhaps by reaction the one who

977
00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:49,200
hitherto believed

978
00:38:53,750 --> 00:38:52,880
too much finds himself disillusioned and

979
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:53,760
naked

980
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:56,720
and unable again to find any foothold

981
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:57,920
from which to look

982
00:39:05,270 --> 00:39:01,680
positively at life and i'll just cut in

983
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:05,280
here to comment that this although

984
00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:08,400
uh expressed a bit differently

985
00:39:12,150 --> 00:39:10,880
seems to me much of the same argument

986
00:39:15,910 --> 00:39:12,160
we've always

987
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:15,920
heard from believers uh and psychics and

988
00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:17,040
so on

989
00:39:20,069 --> 00:39:19,520
that you skeptics won't believe can't

990
00:39:22,550 --> 00:39:20,079
believe

991
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:22,560
um etc etc it's just said a different

992
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:23,599
way that's all

993
00:39:26,630 --> 00:39:25,440
once again putting the blame of any

994
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:26,640
failure

995
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:28,800
onto the person doing the investigation

996
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:30,960
rather than the fact that uh

997
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:34,079
the people being investigated

998
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:38,000
aren't holding up aren't uh stacking up

999
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:40,960
we read on this applies of course to

1000
00:39:44,150 --> 00:39:42,000
other creeds than

1001
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:44,160
spiritualism in which the adherents are

1002
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:45,680
not allowed to use their

1003
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:48,320
intelligence or make their own valuation

1004
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:49,200
of things

1005
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:52,320
that in my opinion is one aspect of the

1006
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:53,119
damage which

1007
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:56,640
spiritualism can do there is another

1008
00:40:00,310 --> 00:39:59,599
which is that while it encourages the

1009
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:00,320
negative

1010
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:03,760
attitude of the rank and file and tends

1011
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:04,640
to make them

1012
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:07,599
complacent because of the flattery which

1013
00:40:11,990 --> 00:40:09,040
the medium gives them

1014
00:40:12,630 --> 00:40:12,000
it encourages the medium to be dishonest

1015
00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:12,640
i say

1016
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:15,440
this in the full knowledge that most

1017
00:40:19,510 --> 00:40:16,880
mediums are people

1018
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:19,520
who are animated by the highest

1019
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:20,960
principles

1020
00:40:28,309 --> 00:40:24,160
of integrity and who genuinely try

1021
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:28,319
to give out nothing but the truth

1022
00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:30,720
moreover as people they are for the most

1023
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:31,839
part very pleasant

1024
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:34,560
and nice and very few succumb to

1025
00:40:38,550 --> 00:40:36,160
deliberate fraud

1026
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:38,560
but if they do it is because they have

1027
00:40:42,550 --> 00:40:39,680
given way

1028
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:42,560
to the temptation which is always before

1029
00:40:46,870 --> 00:40:44,240
the medium and which

1030
00:40:48,390 --> 00:40:46,880
fortunately most of them resist

1031
00:40:51,750 --> 00:40:48,400
successfully

1032
00:40:52,150 --> 00:40:51,760
it must be realized too that the medium

1033
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:52,160
is

1034
00:40:58,390 --> 00:40:55,200
judged by what he produces

1035
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,400
the more startling this is the better

1036
00:41:04,390 --> 00:41:00,240
the medium is judged to be

1037
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:04,400
thus if trumpets float about the room

1038
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:07,119
if objects are moved the medium is

1039
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:08,880
thought much of

1040
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:11,280
if he can produce anything which shows

1041
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:13,040
even a small degree of

1042
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:16,160
psychic power then this too is something

1043
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:17,440
worthwhile

1044
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:21,200
in the eyes of the faithful there are

1045
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:24,720
however many mediums whose power is

1046
00:41:31,190 --> 00:41:28,079
extremely mediocre if it

1047
00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:31,200
exists at all as it is

1048
00:41:35,430 --> 00:41:34,640
so erratic and uncertain that in order

1049
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:35,440
to give

1050
00:41:42,790 --> 00:41:39,200
good value something else has to be done

1051
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:42,800
consequently it is of great assistance

1052
00:41:46,790 --> 00:41:45,599
if the guide is a person who can speak

1053
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:46,800
with authority

1054
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:49,920
and many mediums have such guides

1055
00:41:53,910 --> 00:41:52,880
sometimes directly sometimes by broad

1056
00:41:56,470 --> 00:41:53,920
hints

1057
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:56,480
they tell one how wise and important

1058
00:41:59,630 --> 00:41:57,280
they are

1059
00:42:01,990 --> 00:41:59,640
strongly suggesting that the highly

1060
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:02,000
platitudinous moral talks

1061
00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:05,680
which they give are derived from higher

1062
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:09,280
spiritual spheres and i'll just break in

1063
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:11,280
here once again to say why don't people

1064
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:13,200
talk like this anymore

1065
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:16,240
that's quite something isn't it well i

1066
00:42:19,910 --> 00:42:18,000
wonder if if many people were

1067
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:19,920
wandering around society talking like

1068
00:42:24,550 --> 00:42:21,920
this in 1950

1069
00:42:25,829 --> 00:42:24,560
we read on in reviewing the course of

1070
00:42:28,470 --> 00:42:25,839
our investigation

1071
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:28,480
i must not altogether admit to mention

1072
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:30,960
the mediums who profess to heal

1073
00:42:34,790 --> 00:42:32,560
there is a great deal which might be

1074
00:42:36,630 --> 00:42:34,800
said about non-medical methods of

1075
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:36,640
healing and especially about the

1076
00:42:42,069 --> 00:42:38,319
difference between true

1077
00:42:45,670 --> 00:42:42,079
spiritual healing and spirit

1078
00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:45,680
healing such as is practiced by mediums

1079
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:48,880
but it would take too much space i wish

1080
00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:49,839
that i could

1081
00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:52,880
in this connection be less negative than

1082
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:55,359
i have felt it necessary to be

1083
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:58,400
about the rest but neither during the

1084
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:01,440
present investigation nor at any time

1085
00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:04,400
have i yet seen a case where i was

1086
00:43:09,510 --> 00:43:06,319
satisfied either that the

1087
00:43:11,510 --> 00:43:09,520
diagnosis was correct or the treatment

1088
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:11,520
anything which could not have been

1089
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:12,720
accounted for

1090
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:15,680
without having to recourse to the idea

1091
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:16,319
of

1092
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:19,760
spirit help i have moreover are several

1093
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:20,800
of my colleagues

1094
00:43:24,829 --> 00:43:24,079
for their views and they have been just

1095
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:24,839
as

1096
00:43:29,270 --> 00:43:27,440
disappointed naturally the believer will

1097
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:29,280
blame this on the conservatism of the

1098
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:30,160
profession

1099
00:43:35,190 --> 00:43:33,359
but i am afraid this will not do

1100
00:43:36,790 --> 00:43:35,200
among forty thousand doctors there

1101
00:43:40,230 --> 00:43:36,800
should be a few

1102
00:43:43,750 --> 00:43:40,240
who would face the truth if truth

1103
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:43,760
there were on the contrary one fails

1104
00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:44,800
every time to get

1105
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:47,920
concrete evidence of cure and usually

1106
00:43:51,910 --> 00:43:48,560
also

1107
00:43:54,390 --> 00:43:51,920
of diagnosis and now we

1108
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:54,400
come to the part where it's the turn of

1109
00:44:00,470 --> 00:43:57,599
mrs haldane to sum up

1110
00:44:01,430 --> 00:44:00,480
mrs haldane there is still a vast number

1111
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:01,440
of people

1112
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:03,839
who do not believe in what is commonly

1113
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:06,480
called telepathy or clairvoyance

1114
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:09,760
but the thousands of experiments made

1115
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:12,079
both by the society for psychical

1116
00:44:15,990 --> 00:44:13,040
research

1117
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:16,000
a strictly scientific body and such

1118
00:44:21,109 --> 00:44:17,839
distinguished researchers in

1119
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:21,119
this field as professor j b ryan

1120
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:23,839
and the mathematician dr sull have

1121
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:24,480
already

1122
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:27,839
proved the existence of these phenomena

1123
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:31,040
up to the hilt so as far as i'm

1124
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:31,839
concerned

1125
00:44:35,030 --> 00:44:34,160
my own experience has confirmed all

1126
00:44:38,710 --> 00:44:35,040
their results

1127
00:44:39,910 --> 00:44:38,720
over and over again and i agree with

1128
00:44:42,630 --> 00:44:39,920
professor ryan

1129
00:44:43,109 --> 00:44:42,640
that there are probably millions of

1130
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,119
people

1131
00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:45,440
in the world today who can make similar

1132
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:46,480
experiments

1133
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:49,280
and discoveries in the field with equal

1134
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:50,400
success

1135
00:44:56,630 --> 00:44:54,480
i'm breaking once again to

1136
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:56,640
uh lament the fact that i can't jump

1137
00:45:01,030 --> 00:44:58,319
into a time machine go back

1138
00:45:03,030 --> 00:45:01,040
and conduct some tests at the time

1139
00:45:04,150 --> 00:45:03,040
myself for these people along the lines

1140
00:45:07,510 --> 00:45:04,160
of the ones

1141
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:07,520
i used to do with the james randy crew

1142
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:09,200
at the amazing meetings for the one

1143
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:11,280
million dollar challenge

1144
00:45:15,750 --> 00:45:14,160
wouldn't that be something we read on

1145
00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:15,760
the one thing that seems

1146
00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:18,560
probable to me as far as my personal

1147
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:20,560
experience has gone

1148
00:45:24,069 --> 00:45:23,119
is that there is no need to assume the

1149
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:24,079
intervention of

1150
00:45:29,510 --> 00:45:27,119
any supernatural forces or beings

1151
00:45:30,870 --> 00:45:29,520
in order to explain either telepathy

1152
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:30,880
clairvoyance

1153
00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:33,040
or other means of paranormal

1154
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:34,880
communication

1155
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:37,680
however there are a great number of

1156
00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:40,640
people who require to satisfy

1157
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:43,760
some emotional longing or calm some

1158
00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:47,280
fear or sorrow by making such assumption

1159
00:45:51,109 --> 00:45:49,920
i do not for one moment question either

1160
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:51,119
the honesty

1161
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:53,520
or the sincerity of those who believe in

1162
00:45:57,349 --> 00:45:54,880
spiritualism

1163
00:45:59,430 --> 00:45:57,359
the supernatural or the possibility of

1164
00:46:02,950 --> 00:45:59,440
communicating with the dead

1165
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:02,960
with the help of mediums men or women

1166
00:46:06,950 --> 00:46:05,440
who use their paranormal gifts in this

1167
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:06,960
particular way

1168
00:46:10,069 --> 00:46:09,359
when i was recently invited to join the

1169
00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:10,079
committee

1170
00:46:14,069 --> 00:46:13,119
formed to attend sittings with various

1171
00:46:16,230 --> 00:46:14,079
mediums

1172
00:46:17,589 --> 00:46:16,240
i had no previous experience of

1173
00:46:19,910 --> 00:46:17,599
spiritualism

1174
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:19,920
my mind was completely open on the

1175
00:46:23,589 --> 00:46:20,880
matter

1176
00:46:25,430 --> 00:46:23,599
i thought my previous experiments in

1177
00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:25,440
telepathy and clairvoyance

1178
00:46:29,430 --> 00:46:28,240
might assist me to assess the qualities

1179
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:29,440
of mediumship

1180
00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:31,359
from a strictly intellectual and

1181
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:32,960
non-emotional angle

1182
00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:36,480
and this was to some extent the case

1183
00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:39,440
and i was very interested indeed when at

1184
00:46:43,349 --> 00:46:40,640
one of the sittings

1185
00:46:44,309 --> 00:46:43,359
a remarkable instance of telepathy

1186
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:44,319
involved me

1187
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:47,359
personally the medium in question was a

1188
00:46:53,510 --> 00:46:49,839
lady whose speciality was

1189
00:46:55,430 --> 00:46:53,520
she told us psychometry this is another

1190
00:46:56,950 --> 00:46:55,440
technique for achieving telepathic

1191
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:56,960
contact with someone

1192
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:59,920
not present physically it consists of

1193
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:01,040
giving the

1194
00:47:06,790 --> 00:47:04,240
psychometrist an object to hold

1195
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:06,800
such as a ring a fountain pen a

1196
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:07,920
cigarette case

1197
00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:10,960
or some similar article and from which

1198
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:11,920
to glean

1199
00:47:16,630 --> 00:47:14,079
information about someone who has been

1200
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:16,640
in contact with it previously

1201
00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:18,880
when the sitting began the medium was

1202
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:21,119
handed a wrist watch by one of those

1203
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:21,920
present

1204
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:25,119
not by me she held this in her hand

1205
00:47:29,270 --> 00:47:27,599
and began to describe the impressions it

1206
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:29,280
conveyed to her

1207
00:47:37,349 --> 00:47:33,760
suddenly she said i am getting a name

1208
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:37,359
it's the name of morris

1209
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:40,880
not the christian name the surname

1210
00:47:47,349 --> 00:47:43,920
and now another name yes

1211
00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:47,359
i have it john morris

1212
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:49,520
now this did not convey apparently

1213
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:50,480
anything of

1214
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:52,480
interest to the other members of the

1215
00:47:57,030 --> 00:47:53,520
audience except

1216
00:47:57,829 --> 00:47:57,040
to myself for john morris was as i have

1217
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:57,839
related

1218
00:48:02,150 --> 00:48:00,800
a friend with whom i conducted a long

1219
00:48:05,670 --> 00:48:02,160
series of telepathic

1220
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:05,680
experiments in 1935.

1221
00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:08,319
i am glad to say that he has not passed

1222
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:08,880
over

1223
00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:11,760
but is very much alive on the occasion

1224
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:12,559
when this

1225
00:48:17,030 --> 00:48:15,200
sitting occurred mr morris was

1226
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:17,040
holidaying in italy

1227
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:20,640
nor was he at the moment in my

1228
00:48:24,069 --> 00:48:23,440
conscious thoughts there is no doubt

1229
00:48:27,109 --> 00:48:24,079
however

1230
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:27,119
that subconsciously i connected him with

1231
00:48:30,470 --> 00:48:28,240
such experiments

1232
00:48:31,829 --> 00:48:30,480
and what had happened was my

1233
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:31,839
subconscious mind

1234
00:48:36,069 --> 00:48:35,040
had transmitted his name to that of the

1235
00:48:38,230 --> 00:48:36,079
medium

1236
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:38,240
with regard to the very controversial

1237
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:40,000
subject of spiritualism

1238
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:41,760
my personal knowledge is extremely

1239
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:43,440
limited nor do i

1240
00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:46,559
propose to extend it much further there

1241
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:47,520
are obviously

1242
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:50,160
only two possible approaches to the

1243
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:51,119
subject

1244
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:54,160
the first is objective cool intellectual

1245
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:54,960
approach

1246
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:58,000
of the scientific investigator today

1247
00:49:02,790 --> 00:49:00,000
this is being applied on a very big

1248
00:49:04,549 --> 00:49:02,800
scale by such bodies as the society for

1249
00:49:07,670 --> 00:49:04,559
psychical research

1250
00:49:09,190 --> 00:49:07,680
its members have at their disposal the

1251
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:09,200
necessary training

1252
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:12,559
medical and psychological the necessary

1253
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:15,839
apparatus and the experience

1254
00:49:19,589 --> 00:49:18,960
required for such investigation i have

1255
00:49:21,990 --> 00:49:19,599
not

1256
00:49:23,910 --> 00:49:22,000
and even had i the essential

1257
00:49:27,109 --> 00:49:23,920
prerequisites for such work

1258
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:27,119
i would have neither the leisure nor the

1259
00:49:32,790 --> 00:49:30,559
inclination to devote myself to it

1260
00:49:35,030 --> 00:49:32,800
the second method of approach is the

1261
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:35,040
subjective emotional one

1262
00:49:38,950 --> 00:49:37,280
thousands who have suffered grief and

1263
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:38,960
bereavement through the loss of loved

1264
00:49:42,150 --> 00:49:39,599
ones

1265
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:42,160
have undoubtedly found great consolation

1266
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:43,680
in spiritualism

1267
00:49:49,270 --> 00:49:47,040
but this is a temperamental matter

1268
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:49,280
while it would be most unbecoming to

1269
00:49:53,109 --> 00:49:50,800
deny to others

1270
00:49:54,069 --> 00:49:53,119
the right to seek and find such

1271
00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:54,079
consolation

1272
00:49:59,910 --> 00:49:57,200
for myself i feel no necessity

1273
00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:59,920
for it this is not because i have not

1274
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:00,640
myself

1275
00:50:05,349 --> 00:50:03,599
suffered grief or bereavement but my

1276
00:50:08,309 --> 00:50:05,359
tentative experiments

1277
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:08,319
and in study of paranormal phenomena

1278
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:08,720
have

1279
00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:11,440
revealed to me the great dangers

1280
00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:13,920
attached to wishful thinking

1281
00:50:17,910 --> 00:50:16,160
and no emotional satisfaction or

1282
00:50:21,109 --> 00:50:17,920
consolation would outweigh

1283
00:50:23,349 --> 00:50:21,119
for me the reluctance to become

1284
00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:23,359
the victim of my own wishful thinking

1285
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:24,640
auto suggestion

1286
00:50:29,109 --> 00:50:27,599
or self-deception once again a comment

1287
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:29,119
from me

1288
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:31,040
that's fascinating that's just so

1289
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:34,079
fascinating she um

1290
00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:36,640
she suggests that she has these sort of

1291
00:50:41,829 --> 00:50:39,440
safeguards up but apparently as we read

1292
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:41,839
earlier in her account she is a

1293
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:43,200
completely

1294
00:50:49,510 --> 00:50:46,480
believes in spiritualism anyway or

1295
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:49,520
psychic matters and

1296
00:50:53,990 --> 00:50:53,040
her account of the psychometry is a good

1297
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:54,000
example of that

1298
00:50:59,430 --> 00:50:57,680
where where we really would need to have

1299
00:51:01,750 --> 00:50:59,440
been there at the time

1300
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:01,760
but somebody throws out a name and she

1301
00:51:05,190 --> 00:51:03,839
connects it with somebody she's known

1302
00:51:07,430 --> 00:51:05,200
for many years or knew

1303
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:07,440
many years ago that's fascinating let's

1304
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,400
read on

1305
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:10,800
i believe that a certain amount of

1306
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:12,720
suffering is necessary

1307
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:14,800
for the full development of the human

1308
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:15,839
spirit

1309
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:17,680
it is only through suffering that we

1310
00:51:23,750 --> 00:51:20,400
learn to understand ourselves and others

1311
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:23,760
to strengthen our own wills and to have

1312
00:51:27,910 --> 00:51:25,839
compassion for the suffering of our

1313
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:27,920
fellow creatures

1314
00:51:34,470 --> 00:51:31,040
just as poetry is emotion

1315
00:51:37,349 --> 00:51:34,480
remembered in tranquility so

1316
00:51:38,630 --> 00:51:37,359
spiritual development is the

1317
00:51:41,670 --> 00:51:38,640
distillation

1318
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:41,680
of reflection based on suffering it

1319
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:42,800
seems to me

1320
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:46,400
that it may be wiser and more worthwhile

1321
00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:49,760
to take the harder but in the end more

1322
00:51:53,990 --> 00:51:51,280
valuable way

1323
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:54,000
than to seek constellation along a path

1324
00:52:01,510 --> 00:51:55,040
that may be

1325
00:52:05,829 --> 00:52:03,270
well thank you dr bendett and mrs

1326
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:05,839
haldane for your interesting summing up

1327
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:08,079
and indeed on the very page i'm reading

1328
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:10,319
we have photographs of

1329
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:12,960
dr bendet and mrs charlotte haldane

1330
00:52:16,829 --> 00:52:13,760
along with

1331
00:52:19,510 --> 00:52:16,839
lord amwell sir john anderson and canon

1332
00:52:21,270 --> 00:52:19,520
knight

1333
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:21,280
and next week brings us to the end of

1334
00:52:24,470 --> 00:52:23,280
this whole series where we hear the

1335
00:52:26,950 --> 00:52:24,480
summing up from

1336
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:26,960
canon knight probably from a uh

1337
00:52:31,349 --> 00:52:27,920
religious

1338
00:52:34,950 --> 00:52:31,359
perspective and from l.a.g

1339
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:34,960
strong into the unknown

1340
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:37,760
a report of a series of investigations

1341
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:39,839
conducted in the uk

1342
00:52:47,190 --> 00:52:45,680
in late 1949 reported in 1950

1343
00:52:49,109 --> 00:52:47,200
and you can read that for yourself a

1344
00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:49,119
link in this week's show notes

1345
00:53:11,510 --> 00:52:54,400
at www.trove.nla.gov

1346
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:13,190
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1347
00:53:16,710 --> 00:53:15,040
zone maynard i hope you enjoyed this

1348
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:16,720
week episode especially

1349
00:53:21,109 --> 00:53:19,040
the interesting summing up of those

1350
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:21,119
psychic tests in the 1950s

1351
00:53:25,510 --> 00:53:24,079
1949 50s yeah it's funny like that could

1352
00:53:26,230 --> 00:53:25,520
have been written anytime that couldn't

1353
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:26,240
it

1354
00:53:32,069 --> 00:53:30,079
and i've been

1355
00:53:33,750 --> 00:53:32,079
fooled all this stuff no it was it was

1356
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:33,760
typical cold reading but those people

1357
00:53:36,549 --> 00:53:34,720
way back then

1358
00:53:38,069 --> 00:53:36,559
who thought they were experts or maybe

1359
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:38,079
they did consider themselves to be

1360
00:53:41,750 --> 00:53:38,960
experts

1361
00:53:43,349 --> 00:53:41,760
very interesting and also something

1362
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:43,359
richard has experienced tonight for the

1363
00:53:46,230 --> 00:53:44,240
first time

1364
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:46,240
he did not know that i had a copy of the

1365
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:47,280
yuri gela

1366
00:53:50,950 --> 00:53:49,520
album on vinyl from the 70s and i

1367
00:53:53,829 --> 00:53:50,960
brought it out and i scared you

1368
00:53:55,990 --> 00:53:53,839
you'd i i you know what i've never i

1369
00:53:58,069 --> 00:53:56,000
didn't know yuri geller brought out a

1370
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:58,079
record album and there it was and i

1371
00:54:02,309 --> 00:53:59,680
turned it around there's a bent

1372
00:54:03,510 --> 00:54:02,319
fork on the back not a bent spoon a bent

1373
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:03,520
fork yeah well

1374
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:10,309
yes yes there's one way of putting it

1375
00:54:14,230 --> 00:54:11,520
yes that's right

1376
00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:14,240
uh now coming up on next week's show we

1377
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:15,119
finally

1378
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:20,160
unknown from trove at long last we find

1379
00:54:23,109 --> 00:54:20,880
out what

1380
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:23,119
the panel really think looking forward

1381
00:54:26,710 --> 00:54:24,880
to that and then we'll be looking at

1382
00:54:27,589 --> 00:54:26,720
more skeptical things in the weeks to

1383
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:27,599
come in the

1384
00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:30,240
archives there at trove but i want to

1385
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:32,240
say a big thank you as i always do may

1386
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:33,920
not and i know you appreciate this

1387
00:54:37,430 --> 00:54:36,640
to our patreons and our paypal

1388
00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:37,440
subscribers

1389
00:54:40,470 --> 00:54:38,880
look richard would never say that but

1390
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:40,480
because i'm a bit of a rude bugger i

1391
00:54:42,870 --> 00:54:40,880
would

1392
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:42,880
the only listeners who really matter are

1393
00:54:45,510 --> 00:54:44,400
the patreons because let's face it

1394
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:45,520
they're the ones that are footing the

1395
00:54:48,150 --> 00:54:46,079
bill

1396
00:54:49,829 --> 00:54:48,160
i know richard would never say that i

1397
00:54:50,470 --> 00:54:49,839
would never say that you are footing the

1398
00:54:54,710 --> 00:54:50,480
bill

1399
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:54,720
strangely enough you wouldn't believe it

1400
00:54:57,589 --> 00:54:55,440
would you

1401
00:54:58,789 --> 00:54:57,599
including my tooth lately may not i must

1402
00:55:01,829 --> 00:54:58,799
have that's right yes

1403
00:55:05,109 --> 00:55:01,839
yes yeah look look if you uh look

1404
00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:05,119
to quote many a a podcaster if you don't

1405
00:55:10,870 --> 00:55:06,000
support something

1406
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:13,349
and as as we do this we're still

1407
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:15,359
watching this movie with ann margaret

1408
00:55:18,710 --> 00:55:17,040
from the 60s called the swinger in the

1409
00:55:20,069 --> 00:55:18,720
background because it's so funny

1410
00:55:22,390 --> 00:55:20,079
look the only reason we're watching it

1411
00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:22,400
because the soundtracks by andre previn

1412
00:55:27,109 --> 00:55:25,520
yes yes it is and it's brilliant it's a

1413
00:55:29,190 --> 00:55:27,119
really good soundtrack yeah and there's

1414
00:55:30,549 --> 00:55:29,200
a guy who almost looks like terry thomas

1415
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:30,559
in it but not quite we're a bit

1416
00:55:32,950 --> 00:55:31,520
disappointed

1417
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:32,960
we were we thought it would be terry

1418
00:55:37,109 --> 00:55:34,799
thomas but never mind yes

1419
00:55:38,950 --> 00:55:37,119
well next week's episode again as i say

1420
00:55:40,710 --> 00:55:38,960
we've got uh dive into trove

1421
00:55:43,109 --> 00:55:40,720
we've got the book of tim one more book

1422
00:55:44,470 --> 00:55:43,119
of tim and you know it's just a mystery

1423
00:55:45,349 --> 00:55:44,480
what's coming up may not who knows

1424
00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:45,359
what's coming up

1425
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:47,760
you know but we'll all be here waiting

1426
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:49,680
to see what you've got richard

1427
00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:51,520
thank you but until then this is richard

1428
00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:53,280
saunders and

1429
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:56,000
maynard signing off from maynard

1430
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:57,599
international studios

1431
00:56:01,430 --> 00:56:00,559
hmm that's right it's like disney except

1432
00:56:04,069 --> 00:56:01,440
our motto is

1433
00:56:09,670 --> 00:56:04,079
it's the most disappointing place in the

1434
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:11,430
you've been listening to the skeptic

1435
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:12,880
zone podcast

1436
00:56:20,549 --> 00:56:17,520
please visit our website at www.skip

1437
00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:20,559
for show notes contacts and to access

1438
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:22,559
the back catalog of episodes

1439
00:56:28,150 --> 00:56:26,079
going back to 2008. you can follow the

1440
00:56:31,589 --> 00:56:28,160
skeptic zone podcast on twitter

1441
00:56:35,109 --> 00:56:31,599
at skepticzone visit our facebook page

1442
00:56:36,549 --> 00:56:35,119
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1443
00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:36,559
support the skeptic zone

1444
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:39,760
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1445
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:41,119
podcast is an

1446
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:43,520
independent production the views and

1447
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:45,599
opinions expressed on the skeptic zone

1448
00:56:48,870 --> 00:56:47,680
are not necessarily those of australian

1449
00:57:02,710 --> 00:56:48,880
skeptics or

1450
00:57:06,630 --> 00:57:04,549
hello to the people who listen after the

1451
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:06,640
music i'm back now at the skeptic's own

1452
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:08,400
studios

1453
00:57:12,230 --> 00:57:10,559
birds chirping outside or whatever they

1454
00:57:13,589 --> 00:57:12,240
do these birds don't chirp

1455
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:13,599
they're not chirping they're singing

1456
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:16,559
they're calling

1457
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:18,319
whatever okay we're going to play the

1458
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:20,319
dice game this is where i roll a d10

1459
00:57:24,549 --> 00:57:21,200
this week

1460
00:57:27,670 --> 00:57:24,559
four times three times and then one more

1461
00:57:29,109 --> 00:57:27,680
so four times and you guess

1462
00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:29,119
what number's going to come up you can

1463
00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:32,000
use whatever power you like to guess

1464
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:34,240
if you think you have psychic power by

1465
00:57:38,710 --> 00:57:36,960
all means be my guest and use that

1466
00:57:40,069 --> 00:57:38,720
if you'd rather just use dumb luck like

1467
00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:40,079
the rest of us go ahead

1468
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:42,160
too right here we go i'm gonna roll it

1469
00:57:47,589 --> 00:57:43,280
three times

1470
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:47,599
roll number one coming up in my special

1471
00:57:55,910 --> 00:57:54,630
and the first number up is a one this

1472
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:55,920
week

1473
00:58:02,870 --> 00:57:59,599
write that down one

1474
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:06,950
it is a seven

1475
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:12,230
and the last number guess away

1476
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:15,990
it's oh eight

1477
00:58:20,390 --> 00:58:19,440
one seven and eight and now it's time

1478
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:20,400
for one more

1479
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:31,430
i please very much it's a 10.

1480
00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:35,430
so this week's numbers are 178

1481
00:58:41,990 --> 00:58:38,720
and 10 and before we go

1482
00:58:48,950 --> 00:58:45,750
this segment of the show this

1483
00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:48,960
audio which i will leave you with is

1484
00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:52,720
one of the very first uh sounds

1485
00:58:59,190 --> 00:58:55,920
from another planet the

1486
00:59:13,440 --> 00:58:59,200
sound of wind hitting the microphone